Thread:Chaoticcylinder/@comment-2A02:C7D:1A85:F600:A808:1949:651C:C4E0-20200728185356/@comment-2A02:C7D:1A85:F600:DCC0:F402:EF61:A13C-20200729161339

Thank  you  PokemonRay66 (you addressed Simon but I think that I was the intended reader)

1.  I  was  trying  to  say  why  can't  lesbianism  and  another   term  just  for  afab4afab  people  coexist,  as  at  the  moment  there  are  exclusively  afab4afab  people  IDing  as  lesbians  who  are  invalidating  trans  women  and  AMAB  nb  people  who  ID  as  lesbians. I'm  trying  to  solve  a  problem,  not  create  one.

2.  Being  AMAB  or  AFAB  isn't  really  an  identity  somebody  can  choose  to  be  labelled  as  though  because  it's  a fact?

3.  No,  I'm  acknowledging  that  gender  is  complicated,  for  example  if  I  was  to  date  a  cis  woman  or  dysphoric  AFAB  person  who  decided  to  transition  from  female  to  male  I'd  still  want  to  continue  our  relationship. And  secondly,  although  I'm  generally  more  attracted  to  masculine  (AFAB)  people,  trans  men  who  pass  very  well  will  likely  have/show  a  combination  of  male  secondary  sex  characteristics  which  I  wouldn't  find  attractive  in  the  first  place,  though  of  course  some  AFAB  people  can  also  have  heavier  body  hair  etc etc. but  when  these characteristcs  are  combined  things  are  sort  of  different. (Sorry  if  this  bit  is quite rough around the edges, I don't know all of the right terminology)

I'm  attracted  to  people  because  of  things  like  personality,  looks  and  how  they  treat  others,  not  their  biological sex,  but  I'm  only  romantically  and  sexually  attracted  to  AFAB  people. I  can  be  attracted  to  trans  men  but  not cis  men  because  cis  men  are  male. That  doesn't  mean  I  only  like  trans  men  beacuse  they're  female  or because  they're  trans,  rather  than  as  individuals,  but  it  means  that  AMAB  people  are  automatically  unattractive (in  a  dating  sense)  to  me  regardless  of  their  gender  and  personality, appearance etc.

4.  I  don't  think  of  trans  women  as  men,  but  I  do  recognise  them  as  being  AMAB  because  that's  true. I don't want  to  date  AMAB  people,  and  trans  women  will  not  want  to  date  me  anyway  if  i  am  subconsciously transphobic... similarly  I'm  unlikely  to  enter  a  relationship  with  a  trans  man  who  passes  99.9%  of  the  time  (like  Buck  Angel) and/or  has  had  SRS. I'm  not  attracted  to  non-passing  trans  women  because  they  look  male  and  are  AMABs,  and  passing  trans  women  are  usually  feminine,  and  even  if  they  are post-op  are  still  AMAB.

I  feel  repulsed  at  the  thought  of  intimacy  with  an  AMAB  person,  and  I  don't  think  that's  something  I  can change,  it's  not  like  I've  experienced  any  trauma  I  could  seek  therapy  for. I  have  nothing  against  trans women  yet  I  can't  bring  myself  to  be  attracted  to  them  and  I  feel  awful  about  it. I'm  really  stuck  here.

5.  I  can't  ID  as  bisexual  though,  because  bisexuality  is  attraction  to  people  of  both  sexes. Polysexual  is  too fluid  for  my  liking  for  a  similar  reason,  I  don't  want  my  sexuality  to  be  open  to  interpretaion. I  won't  ID  as  a lesbian  because  I'm  not  attracted  to  people  of  the  opposite  sex  aka  trans  women,  and  I  don't  want  to  contribute  to  trans  women  and  AMAB  nb  people  being excluded  by  some  people  from  lesbianism  by  defining  myself  as  both  lesbian and  afab4afab.

Thank  you  for  trying  to  help  or  at  least  discussing  this  with  me,  sorry  for  being  long-winded  and  persistent.